<article scheme=columns title="Interview with Vincent Scheib a.k.a. aancsiid / Demoscene Outreach Group" author="Adok">

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Interview with Vincent Scheib
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<link external mailto:cdvolko@gmx.net>
Adok/Hugi
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Vincent Scheib, also known as aancsiid, is the founder of the Demoscene Outreach Group (DOG). This group was founded to organize demo presentations at major computer animations events such as Siggraph and the GDC. I've talked with Vincent about DOG, the American scene and his PhD thesis.

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<i>
First, could you give a quick introduction to yourself so that the
readers know who they are reading about?
</i>

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Ok. Hi, I'm Vince Scheib, my handle is aancsiid. I'm 24 and from 
Cleveland, Ohio, USA.

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I started following the demo scene in about 1992 when I was in high 
school. I'd already built a strong interest in computer graphics and was 
fairly certain I wanted to go into Games.

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At the Ohio State University I picked up a degree in Computer Science 
Engineering, and worked at Electronic Arts as an intern on my first 
published game, NASCAR Rumble for the Play Station.

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<link desc "Vincent Scheib">
<image file images/hair2002.jpg>
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I went to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for a master's 
degree -- I only just finished that. While I was there I published a 
Siggraph and Eurographics paper.

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Now I'm at Angel Studios for the summer working on R&D for games. In the 
Fall I'll decide if I'll do a PhD immediately.

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<i>
How did you get involved with the demoscene?
</i>

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Early on I was, quite frankly, intimidated by the scene. When I first 
tried a few times to make a demo I ended up only with a few effects and 
nothing close to the real thing. Speaking of which, that's where Mr. 
Geiss started working on what eventually turned into the Screen 
saver/Plug in "Geiss".

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So, anyway, the demo scene really inspired me. It bothered me that so 
many people who are really into graphics and animation don't know about 
the scene.

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Then I got to Siggraph. Siggraph is all about cool graphics. But wait, 
there's hardly any game industry or scene awareness there. This just 
drove me nuts.

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The first parties I got to were Takeover2k, 2k+1, and Assembly`01. By 
then I was on a mission to bring demos to all those people who love them 
(but just haven't seen them yet).

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So, I really got involved when I launched the <link external="http://www.scene.org/dog">Demoscene Outreach Group</link>.

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<i>
What about demos is fascinating for you?
</i>

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It's a little crazy inside my head. The best representations of things 
in my head, that I've seen outside of my head, have been in demos.

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I love techno music, I love mods, I love graphics, and I love animation. 
I'm impressed by the technical side of demos too -- and I know enough to 
be really impressed.

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<i>
That was quite well said. :)
You've stated that you started following the scene as early as in 1992.
That's quite a long time ago, at least in terms of the PC scene. 1992
was the year in which the first demos were released which are still
known today (such as Fishtro, Unreal,...), and in which the first
diskmags appeared (Imphobia, Hoax). So you've probably gained quite an
insight into the development of the scene? What has changed in the
course of the years, what are the most important developments in your
opinion?
</i>

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Right, I wasn't checking every product that came out in `92, but I was 
aware of a lot. Also, I completely missed out on the C64, Amiga, demos 
that required GUS, and when zany VESA modes were "in" I missed quite a few 
of those.

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Earlier demos were really boring. ;) They focused a lot on technology 
(which isn't what made them boring), and technology meant much more back 
then. Having a fast line rasterizer, circle, and poly rasterizer really 
went a long way. It was really noticeable.

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The boredom came out of endless scrollers. Nothing new really happened, 
the colors kept cycling, the text scrolling.. but the impressive parts 
were still there. Plenty of demos had no sense of pacing... just, show an
effect and let it sit there for a while.

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The demo scene hit 3D graphics much faster than the game 
industry. This was really remarkable. Demos just looked more impressive 
than anything we were seeing in games. Specular highlighting, z-buffers, 
voxel landscapes, they all were seen in demos before games. That really 
gave the scene an elite feeling.

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Of course, hardware acceleration broke that. We're really only just 
getting out of the turbulence of hardware acceleration. Now, demos don't 
require as much technical investment. Some of them still use it, but 
many demos are artistically complete with just simpler code.

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We've seen demos focus much more on conceptual content than on 
technology. The demos that do show off technology also are generally not 
very responsible for the advancements, the 3D cards have just gotten better.

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<i>
Do you have any relations to other American sceners? What's
currently up in the US/Canadian demoscene?
</i>

<p>
Ha. ;) Mr. Paul Bragiel would say, "what American scene? There is none." 
He's one of the few I know. There are several X-sceners here, but very 
few currently active sceners.

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I've only been meeting most of these guys after I started the whole 
d.o.g. thing. Before that, It was just me and some friends who really 
appreciated demos -- even coded up some effects occasionally -- but no 
one who actually made any.

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It's mighty hard to really understand the scene from way over here. 
Sure, there have been pockets of people who got it, got going, and made 
some great stuff.

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Mostly stuff is really spread out here. When I learned about the scene, 
I only knew one or two others from my area who knew what IRC was.

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At the Game Developer's Conference it's much easier to find many 
Americans who really do track the demo scene. That seems to be mostly 
all that happens here.

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<i>
What do you think are the reasons why the demo scene is much bigger in
Europe than in the US, whereas the US is technologically more
advanced?
</i>

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It's a combination of things. One very important one is transportation 
and distances. The US is quite big. Ok, even throw out the US and think 
of just California (the most dense area of high technology). San 
Francisco to Los Angeles is roughly the same distance as Berlin to 
Munich. But, we have no trains. So, to go to a demo party, you need a 
car -- well, if you happen to already be in California..

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Me, in Ohio, trying to get to the Spring Break demo party 4 years ago.. 
Ha, I'd have to fly over 3 time zones... a trip similar to Moscow to 
London... $250 ~260Euro is more money than I had to spend then.

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Ok, why weren't there sceners in Ohio? Well, the density is just low.. 
and without a demo party to spark interest, very few young minds are 
going to get involved. This is sort of a chicken and egg problem.

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Further, there's a difference in our education. Quite a few European 
countries specialize students much earlier. At ages when more free time 
is had, students are already much more focused on their specialty. This 
helps computer nerds get together early on.

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Also, the US does have a very strong technical economy, but that doesn't 
necessarily reflect what people are doing from the ages 15-20. I think 
that's really a sweet spot to become addicted to and involved in demos. 
Remember, compared to other countries we specialize quite late.

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That's not a complete conclusion, but it's my best guess. For me 
personally, if I had made it to just one demo party at age 18, you would 
have seen many demos made by me in the last six years.

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<link desc "GDC 2002: Members from Renaissance, Future Crew, S!P and the creator of FMOD">
<image file images/07.jpg>
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<i>
What is the reason why you founded DOG? Could you tell us about the
aims and activities of this group?
</i>

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Like I mentioned, it was really founded out of frustration with people 
who <i>should</i> know about the scene, not knowing. I want anyone who loves 
short computer graphic animations to also know about demos.

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What I <i>really</i> want is to get a demo into the Siggraph Electronic 
Theater. That's the premier international computer animation festival -- 
and is mighty selective. Only 2 hours to fit the best of the year from 
independent work, Film studios, Games, etc.

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To do that, I need a few things to happen:

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1. The Siggraph community to better understand and be aware of demos

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2. The Siggraph community to really get hooked on more real time 
graphics. They've gotten a little stuck on pre-rendered graphics for the 
Animation Festival (the other components of Siggraph are very 
interaction based).

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3. Higher quality 'modern' demos. Today's demos are different from those 
in the past .. and what they've become over the past 3 years is really 
something that has a place in the Electronic Theater.

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<i>
In your opinion, how will the scene benefit from a greater awareness
outside?
</i>

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I'm not sure it will. I would like to think that sceners would enjoy a 
larger audience. I think there are still more people out there who would 
be impressed by demos and enjoy them. However, people who don't 
understand demos can do much but harm the scene.

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With greater visibility, it will be easier to get scene events funded. 
We're already seeing this. I can show demos to nVidia, Intel, and 
Microsoft representatives and get a response. However, funding isn't 
necessarily a good thing either. The scene developed as a grass roots 
community -- it's a hobby, not a job. We're all too well aware of demo 
parties corrupted by money.

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But, of course, I wouldn't intentionally do anything I thought would 
harm the scene. I think the scene will cling tightly to it's unique 
style, and I hope the larger audience will appreciate being informed of 
such a great community.

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<i>
Who are the current members of DOG?
</i>

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Aaron Foo, currently at Sony Computer Entertainment America, is a very 
strong contributor -- say, co-president of dog, or something like that.
Then, we have the support of:

<p>Philip Taylor, Microsoft
<p>Jason Della Rocca, International Game Developers Association
<p>Claus D. Volko, Hugi
<p>Ohad Barzilay, CFXWeb
<p>dEF bASE/HaVoK, tHE HaVoK
<p>Soren Hannibal, Shiny Entertainment
<p>Saku Lehtinen, Remedy Entertainment
<p>Eric Haines, Discreet
<p>Theo Engell-Nielsen, hybris/NEMESIS
<p>Saxon, Block Software
<p>Frank Michlick, anonym/padua
<p>Alan Yu, Game Developer's Conference
<p>Samuli Syvahuoko, Fathammer

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<i>
What companies has DOG established contact with thus far?
</i>

<p>
Philip and Jason are our liaisons at Microsoft and the IGDA, we work 
closely with them. Fathammer involved us in some of their activities at 
Assembly`01. We've had discussions with Intel and nVidia employees, in 
fact for Siggraph 02 Intel may show scene demos at their booth.

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The Game Developer's Conference is a for profit institution, and we are 
pleased that they have invited us back year after year. Siggraph is not 
for profit, but we have worked a lot with them.

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<link desc "The crowd watching demos at GDC 2001">
<image file images/gdc2001_pan.jpg>
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<i>
What have the reactions to the presentations at GDC and SIGGRAPH been
like?
</i>

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We get a lot of enthusiastic people to show up. Many people thank us for 
our presentation -- they mostly have only limited exposure to the scene 
or are new to it. Several people were vaguely aware of it, but had lost 
track over the recent years. Generally, any sceners or X-sceners at a 
conference will show up too.

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Our presentation at least year's Siggraph was outstandingly received. We 
packed the room, and had people watching from the hall way through the 
doors. Thanks to Microsoft for paying for the flyers to let people know 
about the event.

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<i>
How difficult was it to organize the presentations?
</i>

<p>
It takes a lot of time. Aaron and I have put a lot of our personal time 
into making it all happen. Other than that, it's not so bad. It's just a 
matter of contacting people, and setting things up.

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It also takes a while to, for example, scan convert an hour worth of 
demos. Just picking which demos to use is a tough job. For our 
presentations, we need not only good scene demos, but demos "accessible" 
enough to a crowd that isn't familiar with the scene. That really limits 
our options.

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<i>
You're a PhD student in computer science. Could you tell us about
your research project?
</i>

<p>
Sure. Well. I can tell you about a few of them.

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<link external "http://www.cs.unc.edu/gamma/dab">dAb - Interactive Haptic Painting with 3D Virtual Brushes</link>:
This is a painting program -- with a 3D brush controlled with a haptic 
feedback arm. So, you hold on to the end of a robotic arm, you can move 
it about in every possible way, and it can push back at you to make it 
feel like you're touching a virtual object.

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The cool thing about a 3D brush is that, well, it's 3D and it holds 
paint over a surface. The brush deforms when you mush it into the 
canvas, and it uses a bidirectional paint transfer model. Paint goes 
down, paint comes up, paint gets all mixed up, paint looks pretty nice.

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<link external "http://www.cs.unc.edu/gamma/sdsda">sdsda - Efficient Fitting and Rendering of Large Scattered Data Sets Using Subdivision Surfaces</link>:
This is a terrain rendering project. It's more complicated than most 
terrain rendering -- because it is really about fitting a smooth surface 
to real data. The standard terrain rendering stuff out there doesn't 
worry about this, and when they do they generally use sloppy methods 
(like a regular grid, or a triangulated irregular network).

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This paper deals with getting a smooth surface, always, fast, and for 
ridiculously huge data sets. It's not what you'd use in a game, it's 
more for heavy duty visualization needs.

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Other stuff, like clay simulation and multiresolution painting are 
things I haven't finished yet, there's some info up at 
<link external="http://www.scheib.net/school/">www.scheib.net/school</link>.

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<i>
What are your plans for your future?
</i>

<p>
The Demoscene Outreach Group has leveled off under my lead .. we're 
regularly active at Siggraph and the Game Developer's Conference. We 
also handle some smaller side projects, but that's about as far as we 
can go with the current number of volunteers.

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(By the way, anyone who feels strongly and would like to help out, 
please speak up.)

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Personally, I'm definitely ending up in the game industry .. there's 
just the question of should I grab that PhD first.

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<i>
Is it common for game-developers in the US to have high academic
degrees such as PhD?
</i>

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I'm sitting in a company of about 150 people, and about 4 PhDs. No, most 
game developers I've met have only an undergraduate, and sometimes only 
partial undergraduate. They gave up school usually around 21 years of age.

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Masters degrees are not uncommon, however. Often, lead programmers and 
other "sharp" individuals have Masters. I have self taught developers at 
the level of master's degrees. I'm still not sure which method is more 
efficient, economical, and a better investment.

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Mostly, one must learn the way they do best -- if that is in a classroom 
or at alone with only books.

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<i>
Do you have some final words to the readers?
</i>

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Make demos. Make good demos. I'm so very proud to show off the best of 
the scene, and I couldn't be happier when I see a new demo that just 
knocks my socks off.

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<i>
As this article has also been translated to Russian,
maybe you also have a message to our Russian
readers?
</i>

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Ahhh, well, specifically for Russians? I haven't made it to Russia yet, 
but I know a guy, Kirill, who's there. ;) Hi Kirill!

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<i>
Okay, thank you for the interview! ;-)
</i>

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If you want to visit Vincent's personal homepage, go to <link external="http://www.scheib.net/">www.scheib.net</link>. The DOG website is located at <link external="http://www.scene.org/dog/">www.scene.org/dog</link>.

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<link external mailto:cdvolko@gmx.net>
Adok/Hugi - 06 June 2002
</link>
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